GCCC World Off-Road Championship Season 2 *RULE CHANGES*

All good, clear, concise rules that are easy to follow. Sign me up! PSN: atheistsw

jamiejohnward you may be right about running out of good quality off-road tracks. I'm starting to have a hard time finding them when looking through social club. Hopefully this event will encourage more creators to create off-road tracks. When they see there tracks being showcased. At the moment there are a handful of creators that are consistently putting out good off-road tracks. I think 12 tracks should be a good ratio of new and replays. 9 new tracks plus the 3 winners.

I don't think we need to ban any other vehicles. Just note that the banned vehicles will be allowed if the creator says they are allowed or designed the track for said banned vehicle.

You didnt ban the Insurgent? LOL, ok. You should allow creators to select which Tier (used in other series) MUST be run for their race. I saw you guys totally play my Ivan Steelman race the WRONG way. First, it really should only be run with Rebels, not all tiers of offroad like I saw, and it should have been WITH contact, but I guess Im not winning that battle. If we cant lock in a Tier class, because I cant lock races to Rebels AND allow Customs too, then I wont bother submitting the Steelman races again. jamiejohnward , you never did tell me why Track 11 couldnt get into this series, after I made it 30 trucks JUST for this crew.

jamiejohnward

Well, apparently you have time to write a long smart aleck response.

You wrote to ME first asking to go over stuff on track 11, implying you had already tested it, and somehow it didnt meet your righteous approval. I wrote back saying instead of waiting for our schedules to line up to meet on mics, just message me with pictures of the areas you have an issue with. And I got no response, when apparently you had something you wanted to say. The track isnt broke, there are no misguiding sections (unlike other races in this crew Ive seen approved for events), and I dont need YOU telling me how to design MY track series. A decently popular series at that. So if you're just going to nitpick about choosing a different prop here, nudge a ramp there, no, I dont want or need to hear it. It races just fine after I sign off on them.

You know full well we cant lock to one vehicle class and still allow customs, so that didnt need a smart ass remark either.

If the races are going to be run with no contact training wheels, then theres even less nitpicking required since contact bottlenecks arent an issue.

Theres this rule here that we cant host an event with nothing but our own races. Ok, fine. But if thats the case, then the races should be from the minds of the author, they dont need one guy (series runner) redesigning everything theyd do differently in their image. To me, if a player is showing up and paying their dues, then the event runners should be obligated to put at least one track of theirs into the series if it isnt totally broke. I forget who said it, but in another thread where the first Ivan race was run, someone was like, it needs more wrecked buses or something for an "off road look". Really? I dont need to be told what the look of my series should be. The look of the Ivan series is deliberately old school looking, realistic with no gamey looking propping, and plain ramps and tire barriers mostly. The desert wasteland look is its own look, and doesnt need to be rubber stamped on every offroad track to look offroady enough.

If all my work is seemingly blacklisted here, then I'll leave again and wont bother supporting other crew events. Because thats the feeling Im getting here, my work has to pass the opinions of every bigwig, and if the job has so much as one complaint, it doesnt see the light of day. As I said, if thats how its going to be, then just run events with nothing but YOUR work. Oh wait, we cant do that. So which is it?

Lastly, forgive me for assuming this was a serious series, where it was expected that racers run the tracks in advance on their own, and know the tracks to be competitive. Not show up with no knowledge of the tracks and needing to be hand held with no contact or making difficult technical sections and all the little nuances the author designed on purpose, easier for the baby racers.

"Well, apparently you have time to write a long smart aleck response."
You think im smart? Thanks for the compliment! At least we can agree on something.

"You wrote to ME first asking to go over stuff on track 11"
No. You asked me why track 11 wasn't entered. I said I can give you some feedback tweaks if you like, based on my personal opinion.
You said yes.

"implying you had already tested it, and somehow it didnt meet your righteous approval."
Righteous? Deflective label. Attacking the person instead of the issue.

I did test it. Not a great leap of imagination considering I offered you feedback on it. I tested 3 of your tracks, 1,2, and 11. 
In case you forgot. One of your tracks was entered. If You didnt want me to use the one I chose, dont tell me to search for all of them... 

"Ivan Steelman's OFF ROAD 2
rsg.ms/6762c18
Rebel trucks clean and rusty ONLY
Noon only
And all the rest of the Ivan series, 10 races total, search #Ivan"

If only 1 person out of the 15 that voted chose to vote for it, don't attempt to suggest it's because it was run on non-contact and not with a custom rebel.

"I wrote back saying instead of waiting for our schedules to line up to meet on mics, just message me with pictures of the areas you have an issue with. And I got no response, when apparently you had something you wanted to say."
I didn't have "something I wanted to say". You wanted to know the reasons why the track wasn't entered. I said I would give you feedback. 

This comment displays perfectly how much of a waste of my very little free time it would have been to offer you my personal opinion... "I dont need YOU telling me how to design MY track series, if you're just going to nitpick about choosing a different prop here, nudge a ramp there, no, I dont want or need to hear it. "
What if I was offering something completely different from nitpicking and a ramp nudge? Oh well, guess we wont find out now.

"The track isnt broke, there are no misguiding sections (unlike other races in this crew Ive seen approved for events),"
In your opinion.

"I Dont need YOU telling me how to design MY track series."
Stop asking me for my opinion then: "message me with pictures of the areas you have an issue with." "you never did tell me why Track 11 couldnt get into this series"
 
"A decently popular series at that."
Argumentum ad populum. There was a time when the majority of educated experts believed smoking was healthy for you.
Lots of people agreed. So it must be true.

"It races just fine after I sign off on them."
In your opinion.
Others disagree. Life.

"You know full well we cant lock to one vehicle class and still allow customs, so that didnt need a smart ass remark either. "
Really? damn, I had no idea.
 
"If the races are going to be run with no contact training wheels, then theres even less nitpicking required since contact bottlenecks arent an issue. "
"training wheels" False premise.
Non-contact doesn't equate to beginner drivers not capable of contact racing.
"Nitpicking" Another false premise. One man's nitpicking is another mans flaws in design. Personal opinion.
"Contact bottle necks" are not the reason the event is run in non-contact.

"Theres this rule here that we cant host an event with nothing but our own races. Ok, fine. But if thats the case, then the races should be from the minds of the author"
In your opinion.

Other people have different opinions on how a crew event should be run. If you want to put forward an idea for an event - like every single other event host has had to do - this is a democratic crew with a forum where people put forward ideas, and the wider community gives feedback, then a decision is made.
As the welcome post and guidelines state... "Anyone can organise a new event and we always welcome new ideas"

That Ivan Steelman Series is apparently very popular. 11 races should fill up a playlist.

"they dont need one guy (series runner) redesigning everything theyd do differently in their image"
More strawman deflection.

Unsurprisingly, you might not have noticed that over the course of the last 2 months the entire event - that's been "shaped in my image" - has been changed and adapted and tweaked based on what the people who attend the event think.
What I wanted the event to be is nothing like what its evolved into after community feedback. I don't tell people how to build their races before entering them, an agreed set of standards are put in place and people are free to choose what they want to build or submit based on the events guidelines or restrictions.

If you don't enjoy how the event is run, then provide constructive feedback in a respectful non-antagonistic way, or create your own event here. Or enter your races in Racewars, Raceday Wednesday, First Person Friday, Sunday Skool, The Purge, or MiniMeet. I'm sure they would be thrilled to have you along.

" To me, if a player is showing up and paying their dues, then the event runners should be obligated to put at least one track of theirs into the series if it isnt totally broke."
In your opinion.

Create an event based around that idea and the other numerous ideas you have about how you think an event should be run.
Post it on the relevant thread. Build your community of like minded individuals and have some fun.
To be honest I dont even know what this sentence even means. A player turns up obligates an event host to put their submission in an event? What dues do you endure that's different from every other single submission?

What baffles me most is the fact that I did enter one of your tracks into the playlist.....and even then you wanted me to stop the entire event and make everyone wait until a time that was suitable to just you.

"I forget who said it, but in another thread where the first Ivan race was run, someone was like, it needs more wrecked buses or something for an "off road look". Really? I dont need to be told what the look of my series should be."

In your opinion. Someone else has a different opinion.
Life.

In my opinion...that exact attitude is exactly why I believe you are in the wrong crew.
I suggest you might want to go back to the start, read the guidelines and figure out the core values of this crew. But hey, that's just my opinion. Some people will disagree with me. Because...everyone has many different opinions.

Life.

"The look of the Ivan series is deliberately old school looking"
You're assuming people's feedback or dislike is based solely on prop aesthetics.

"realistic with no gamey looking propping, and plain ramps and tire barriers mostly."
There are tons of natural looking props to use. Big grey ramps, GP racing barriers and tyre stacks in the middle of a natural swamp/rivers are not considered "realistic" looking.

In my opinion.

You're still assuming feedback involves just what props are used.

You've based the Ivan series on a computer game that looks nothing like what you've built in my opinion.

"The desert wasteland look is its own look, and doesnt need to be rubber stamped on every offroad track to look offroady enough."
Has anybody mentioned this? Or is this just another misleading strawman? 

"then I'll leave again and wont bother supporting other crew events"


........


"Because thats the feeling Im getting here, my work has to pass the opinions of every bigwig, and if the job has so much as one complaint, it doesnt see the light of day."
Correct me if i'm wrong, which im sure you will, but you submitted 11 races in to the event, and that event contained one of your races?
One was chosen, raced, voted on, and feedback provided? 

And not every bigwig, just the event host and the community guidelines

" As I said, if thats how its going to be, then just run events with nothing but YOUR work. Oh wait, we cant do that. So which is it?"

Your logic and reasonong is baffling. Almost as baffling as my spelling of the word reasoning earlier in this sentence.

"Lastly, forgive me for assuming this was a serious series"

You're forgiven.

"...where it was expected that racers run the tracks in advance on their own, and know the tracks to be competitive, and show up with no knowledge of the tracks "

Or perhaps...crew members...could Create jobs tailored for crew events or jobs designed to involve as many crew members as possible. Share their opinions on other peoples work, give reviews and feedback, get reviews and feedback in return ( )and get to know the tracks better and better Play other crew members jobs, either with the crew or on their own, the more they involve themselves outside of their own little bubbles the more integrated they become in the wider community... ergo...more people playing their own tracks!

Or perhaps people wanna just turn up and have fun. 

Damn those evil event hosts trying to cater for as many crew members as possible.

"needing to be hand held with no contact or making difficult technical sections and all the little nuances the author designed on purpose"
Strawman again. Non contact does not equate to drivers who are bad or unable to race contact. You've been give sufficient reasons why this, and many other crew events (lots of people agree so it must be right!!...am I right?!) as to why non-contact is raced.

Dont like it? Create your own event. Or...submit your track to the event of your choosing.

Simple. (no pun intended...)




So, I hope this has cleared up any confusion you might have been experiencing in regards to the points you've kindly raised about this event, and the crew as a whole.

If you are unhappy with anything Im doing as event host, and you believe sending me a polite message to my inbox to discuss wont sort out these detrimental problems you're clearly experiencing, there are many commissioners for you to contact to voice your concerns. Feel free to inbox someone and let them know how you feel.

jamiejohnward

At least we can agree on writing styles, no smart ass filter and plenty of paragraphs. lol

I'll try to write less and more concise and reign this feud back in.

You not signing off on Race 11 indicates you had a reason you didnt want it in, therefore it was on YOU to tell me what that was. I submitted tracks 1-10 before reading the description about 30 car fields wanted. So I made track 11 with room for 30, and assumed youd pick that first. I did say Rebels only, so assumed author preference would be honored.

Yeah, the tracks can be fun for other off road vehicles, but the offroad class is VERY imbalanced when allowed to race together there. With contact, my preference, Insurgent just plows through other trucks, Brawler is too fast against the intended Rebel with a decent driver, Sandking is too big and bulky vs Rebel, and I can run circles around them in a Rebel, and Insurgent, Sandking, and a few others cant take a simple ramp, or multiple arced ramps like the Rebel can.

In real offroad racing, you have to deal with the contact of other drivers, having contact ON is more realistic for offroading IMO, not out there running qualifying laps alone. A good racer can make clean passes with contact on, and I assume there have to be a decent number of drivers here that can handle that. If a driver doesnt want to get wadded up, you dont go flying into every turn when other trucks are there.

The series has the spirit of the arcade game. I cant mold the earth to perfectly recreate the arcade, but I captured the spirit of the terrain sections from the game, mixed in with racing the Los Santos terrain provides, all without NEEDING the big mountains to have offroad fun. You'll also notice tracks 9 and 10 I got even more closer to the feel of the arcade with tighter faster lap tracks.

I dont think you should cater so hard to every style racer. Theres plenty of events here, you could make your events more niche, and not water it down to cater to many. Perhaps my niche in the crew will be creating tighter setting events for the more serious racers we may have here.

On that note, I was told I cant host a series with nothing but MY tracks. But I think Ive found a loophole in that I can insist on events with nothing but MY settings. Im thinking I'll make that fictional Rebel Muddin International Series a real series here, and host an offroad series where we race ONLY the Rebels, and let creators submit their tracks to be run with only Rebels, and I can sprinkle in the Steelman tracks as I want to. Also, since I love my Dukes of Hazzard county derby theme, maybe I'll host a long form series with long tracks, sensible jumps, and we race nothing but the Dukes or Gauntlet.

Ok, heres something Im asking everyone's opinion on. I really LOVE the Dukes. But I know not everyone has it. Dominator is just too fast for the Dukes. Is Gauntlet a fair Dukes competitor with its better handling, but slower speed? Those 2 alone would make a series sort of Dodge themed lol. Not sure how it could be policed, but the honor system, but maybe mandate a lower engine tuning setting for the Dukes as well.

Uh no. Racing stock vehicles is boring and lame. And even though my Steelman jumps are tested to be made with the stock Rebel, its much more fun with max horsepower. Im open to feedback when the feedback isnt petty designer nitpicks, and nothing I publish is ever broken unless Im deliberately saying its in test mode still. I shouldnt have to be made to fix propings when someone says theyd do it differently. As long as it works, and the creator is happy with it, let it be.   

Theres nothing wrong with trying to be a little more serious in the racing. Anyone making racing jobs is at least a semi serious racer. This crew has loyal event turnout, the only reason I stay, not to get feedback Im not asking for.  

Should the Sabre Custom be added to the blacklist? Everything I've read says it's completely OP in muscles.

. We had a few muscle car races last week in WORC with most using the custom sabre turbo. They were all beat by dominaters. I don't think it is too OP off-road, because of the bumps. I didn't even see the the custom sabre turbo win any of the racewars tracks on Sunday. I think under the right conditions it will be OP. But overall I don't think we need to worry about it.