GCCC on PS4 - 'State Of The Union'

UniqueAsh Don't speak FOR me. I couldn't care less if I'm verified now. Never cared in the first place.

Leave me out of this discussion...

Firstly I'd say that GCCC is still, despite everything, the best creator crew in GTA. I'm more convinced of that than ever. Take a look at the PS4 calendar and think: Does any other crew offer the variation and amount of events as GCCC does? You'd be hard pressed to find one. You'd also be hard pressed to find a crew with so many strong opinions, which becomes our biggest asset and issue at the same time (see this thread). However, clearly, we aren't perfect. No-one is. We've got such a diverse set of creators, from stunt racers to free-aim DM enthusiasts and trying to please everyone equally is difficult, practically impossible.

We do take things on-board that are suggested. I think part of the problem is that people have the wrong impression of what's gone on or appear to be under the impression that it's not their responsibility to solve it. To try to correct a few misconceptions here's a glimpse behind the certain. What's changed?

1. Well Jager's taken onboard the criticism and Jager Meister has run weekly and told all commissioners if they want to be backup host so if he can't make it to put themselves forward. The events run every week since. Solved. 
2. GCCC Verified has started. I believe the PS4 crew is going through the old Jager Meister's jobs to find potentially verifiable jobs from old events. This is because the old site didn't have a voting mechanism. This allows fantastic old jobs to be verified. The system, as far as I'm aware is pretty much the same as PS3 one. Jobs get voted into the GCCC Verified round (from everyone) and the eventual verified list is decided by commissioners over objective grounds. It's taken a while but it's not just one guys responsibility and we're doing everything we can to fix it. Solved
3. I really must take exception to you calling the crew management "piss poor" UniqueAsh You were kicked when you were hosting a event but hosting a event doesn't mean you're immune to being kicked. It wasn't a universally liked decision and it was reversed. It was the catalyst for changing the way GCCC communicates - we moved to these forums to organise chats better than commissioner emails. We started a more precise way of dealing with kicking people so no more misunderstandings could happen. Finally, we admitted the mistake and reinstated you to the crew. That issues as solved as it's going to get and we've taken steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
4. You say you want GCCC harder to get in by making people join the forums first. We've already done that. The only way to join the PS4 crew (and temporarily all GCCC crews) is to join the forums. 
5. We've heard complaints that our rules aren't good enough or that commissioners are above the law. We're in the process of getting that sorted. 

With Seize 17 on the way, how has the progress towards better hosting privileges towards event hosts that AREN'T long-time commissioners? I proposed earlier that hosts should be promoted to Comms before hosting their event and then demoting them towards their original rank, but no response as of now, which is not good.

Even though our motto is "Create, Play, Share" I still feel it's required for there supposed to be a sense of honor to event hosts when really everyone should be given the proper tools to host their event.

Basically I'm asking for a 2 hour commisionner promotion for event hosts and then having them bunked down after the event is over. Too much?

Of course I have to do that, but I've had times during Seize events where another commissioner just isn't online or is busy doing something else, which can be very frustrating from an even host's point of view.  

Even though I don't fully agree with everything said I certainly don't wanna keep bringing up old news and going over old ground which i have to be fair. I needed to in all honesty to know where I stand. I'm happy that my views have been heard and I'm happy with how this crew is set up currently to move forward.

Id like to help Jager and do things which benefit the crew. I feel a great way to do that would be to open up my own job review section on this forum similar to Eric's but more concentrated on DMS, Captures and LTS reviews as at the moment I don't have time to host events. This would not only be a awesome for job feedback on PS4 but could really help others in events and so on

Jager has my backing and deserves a second chance in my opinion despite my views. Onwards and Upwards!

jager says:
This crew isn't GCCC, on PS4 side at least. Obviously I've never tried to cause trouble, let alone causing "as much trouble as possible". Such incendiary and nonsensical accusations demostrate how unsuitable you are to lead.

I could have deleted the old site before I left. I could have kicked every member below Commissioner from all 5 GCCC crews. That would have been causing "as much trouble as possible".

Stop lying.

jager says:
Broadly true but not in one crucial way: the Commissioner ranks can only be altered by the Leader rank on Social Club. GCCC on PS3 has never demoted a Commissioner but we have accepted resignations and even called for resignations at times.

Commissioners are only accountable to the leader, at the end of the day. You are a leader who won't press the button on their buddies. That removes accountability from half the day-to-day leadership team of Commissioners. (To the frustration of the other half, as we've seen many times over e-mail and in this topic.)

jager says:
I hadn't seen an announcement about that. Since PS4 ignores the rules, even the ones which were updated earlier in 2015, what difference will the new ones actually make? That's the main source of disputes and it's a leader's duty to ensure the rules are followed. That is what keeps a crew together. (After the initial task of creating good rules, which was done literally years ago.)

jager says:
I believe you and that workload should be spread out as much as possible. But a unique task for the Leader is keeping the Commissioners on track. You have failed to do that. You have failed to unite the crew - how many times have you given this same speech?

Indeed, YOU created a separate crew which DIVIDED GCCC more than any other event in our PS4 history. (Similar to the old gen split from the proto-GCCC crews.)

What you have achieved is the longest running dispute in GCCC history. You haven't kept the PS4 crew true to the unique principles of GCCC. That overshadows any other positive contribution because it has watered down GCCC into being 'just another crew'.

jager says:
Justify those claims, please. Otherwise it's just more hype to cover up the issues. Issues which, in general, you haven't caused. You have become responsible for them due to your apathy and enablement.

jager says:
And yet you have protected rule-breaking buddies of yours, even reverting 100% valid decisions made by other Commissioners. Which was itself contricts our rules and any sense of loyalty to GCCC.

There is a group of 'untouchables' who have eroded GCCC's values - or discarded them entirely - which means this cannot be considered the 'best' crew. They are protected by you because you are one of them.

The only reason you have remained leader is because Social Club does not enable a leader to be kicked from a crew. You haven't had the good grace to hand over the reins, even when absent for months at a time.

Were you worried that you would not be brought back as leader if you stepped down for that hiatus? But if you've done such a good job, how could that have been? I find your lack of faith disturbing.

UniqueAsh said:
That's the situation we could have been in months and months ago, the last time all the same subjects came up. Instead, jager's reaction was to go AWOL and leave nobody in charge of PS4. The first part he couldn't change. The second part he could have.

jager said:
No. Not getting away with that. You actually said "most are still GCCC too". So again, stop lying to cover up the disputes you've caused. This is something that I can pin 100% on you.

You created a crew specifically to poach a massive group of members from GCCC. There is no way you can be allowed to lead a GCCC crew after that.

The only reason you got away with it is because Social Club doesn't enable banning of the Leader rank. Maybe that's why you won't give up the rank? It would have been the last thing you did in GCCC.

jager said:
If you think their opinion is worthless and everyone is equal, you must think everyone's opinion is worthless!

Oh. Wait. That explains a lot...

Anyway, who are you to say they aren't special in the first place? Respect for our most talented creators is earnt the hard way if they've achieved GCCC Verified. Especially from the era when I had veto powers!

Just to make this clear, you have told people what they can and cannot do in this topic. Then you say nobody is above anyone else. It's simple hypocrisy.

If nobody is above anyone else, YOU can't tell people to drop certain subjects. Indeed, the subjects have remained during your leadership because you deflect the critics (badly) instead of engaging with the subject. It is apathy; the very opposite of leadership.

To put it another way: you say the criticism is invalid because the critics are too egotistical. You resort to this personal accusation against the individual when you cannot defend yourself from the criticism itself. Time and time again I have seen it.

Stop being a hypocrite.

jager said:
Only if the leader pushes the button. You proved you would do that to people who are not your friend. (This is well documented.) Equally you prove you will not do this for people who are your friend. (And even reverse decisions which are taken against them.)

You talk about actions being stronger than words in the same message. Hah!

jager said:
Bonus points for using a rare word like 'quell'. But I think you'll find 'confirm' is more apt.

Terto said:
Still?!

Terto said:
True but you made it so easy.

Terto said:
Agree with that list. Because it's the same list we had a year ago! (Nearly 2 years ago it was the list we had for PS3 GCCC. We 'solved' that within weeks and without a prior example to follow. That was before your time.)

Terto said:
There's no need to say "/we" in that sentence. The absence of leadership is the subject of the topic. The fact so much is left to someone else illustrates the culture GCCC now has - and the culture it has lost.

UniqueAsh said:
How many "second chances" have you given him? You can't go "onwards and upwards" if you're actually going around in circles.

"Now and Future"
With all that said, I'm happy to see a new set of Commissioner appointments and retirements made just a couple of days ago.

Only...it should have included more leader changes. I've heard Jager give the same speech too many times, just to arrive right back where we are.

The workload needs to be eased off Terto, too. Appointing a New XBox One Leader is a solid step towards that. Each crew member needs to put some effort in to achieve the purpose of GCCC. That's why GCCC is invite only and purged members every month or two.

The best example always started at the top in GCCC. GM-HOOT on PS3, Terto on XB1, BusterGoody before any of that. This wasn't true on PS4 for too long so a resignation is long overdue.

If this is genuinely a time of change, we should see change where it has been needed the most.

What crew did Jager start? Who are the untouchables? Ben, you're like a jilted lover who broke up with a girl and now wont leave her alone. Just let it go bro, you arent in the crew anymore, why do you care?

Excellent post. 

Your ability to read through the bullshit is admirable.